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mill creek!! white rock

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ICE427

4 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2011 : 8:02:52 PM

just a little info on mill creek.have been out of trail riding for a few years.remembered riding mill creek and white rock.looked up info with foresry web page. loaded bike up today and headed down to check it out at mill creek.rode about 5 minuites stopped to visit with a group of riders.wanted to ride with someone familar with trails. to ask about where to ride and info.seen forestry vehichle.rode around parking area perimeter on west side of road.was going to ask him for more info.realized he was giving out tickets.i never passed a closed trail marker.seen some but did not go past.guess what recieved a ticket.along with 3 outher riders.that had rode along road on trail to parking area.all total from what i heard them say and my own yellow slip.came up to $1425.00 in fines between the four of us.asked ranger/ticket writer some questions. white rock is closed to all orv.bikes atv. all from fayettville to I40.except a small portion at mill creek.and a new spot somewhere?? farther south.i did get to ride some after about 1 hour to get my ticket.not a very good day..

i did spend time looking for trail info to stay out of trouble.did not know enough.heads up!!

TDuncan

5 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 08:52:14 AM

So was the tickets for just not riding on the designated trail? That is rediculous.

'02 KTM 400 EXC
'10 KTM 300 XC-W

ICE427

4 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 1:00:07 PM

my ticket was for being on a closed trail.i did see a plastic trail closed pole but did not pass it.i stated that to officer.he said that even if not marked it could be closed and thay did not need to post it as closed.i was only about 100 yards from main road behind parking area.he also stated that white rock has been off limits since 2007.the events that take place in these areas are by permit only.and event will be required to have insurance.i did not feel he was there to help or inform anyone just issue tickets. i was under the premis that these (were) was a public use land. some of which were donated to the state. i feel now these areas are being used as income producing areas.control people!take there $$.

TDuncan

5 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 3:41:43 PM

I talked to the ranger that was over that area last year sometime and he told me that they basically only wrote tickets to people who were flying up and down the main rode and cutting donuts. I didn't know they'd gone to this extreme. I've lived there all my life. It makes me sick to think this is happening.

'02 KTM 400 EXC
'10 KTM 300 XC-W

ICE427

4 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 5:23:16 PM

i was told by ranger that being on road between trail heads is ok.but excessive speed. or wheeling. donuts, etc is considered wreckless driving.i lifted my front wheel over mud hole and he said that is considered wreckless driving and could be ticketed.also no travel to white rock on gravel road.since white rock is considered closed to orv's.i have talked to several poeple that have ridden these places recently and hade no idea it is closed to orv use.just trying to save outher people some trouble and $$$.

JoshBrogdon

282 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 6:23:34 PM

If one were to be inclined to "obey" the law, where could information be attained regarding the law? Who is the resident "AHSCS" member that knows and will tell what the deal is? I know that alot of areas are "secret"...but who has the secrets and who is telling? Further, what legislation is being passed to change the use of the lands? Has there actually been any new legislation or is this simply a push for enforcing the 2007 legislation previously mentioned? etc etc. Surely the razorback riders know what is going on given their investment in proximity to the OHV area. Spill the beans guys.

Pin it!

Skythrasher

171 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 8:47:58 PM

Short Version

Riding any trail that is not marked as open is illegal. Period. No questions asked.

White Rock Mountain has been closed to OHV's for several years and it is clearly posted on the web and any official publications that pertain to the look out area.

All the necessary rules and trail maps that you need to keep from getting tickets are on the USFS website for the Mill Creek trail head.

There are tons of folks riding tons of trails that are not legal. The fact that they do this in mass does not make it legal.

The Razorback Riders work with the Forest Service and turn in an aplication for a permit for all the events that we put on in a year. This has to be turned in months in advance. We have to have insurance for our events and play by their rules.

We are allowed to ride the trails that we have been given the permit for in the task of working the trails for the events.

I am not trying to be the devils advocate, but you have to play by the rules if you want to play. If you see a closed sign it's to late. You've already blew it. The information is out there. It is your responsibility to gather the info you need to stay out of trouble.

Here are two easy ways to learn all you ever wanted to know.

1.First Tuesday of the month come to Jim's Razorback Pizza in Fay. at 7:00 and join the Razorback Riders.

2.Call the Forest service and request the info for legal places to ride OHV's in the forest. (I bet there is even a number on that ticket)They will be glad to send you what you need.

One of the biggest reasons for the sudden increase in enforcement is because the locals are fed up with all the A holes ripping up and down the road at all hours. Come on guys, they live there.

And just so no one thinks I am hiding behind an internet screen name:

Jake Davis
479-595-1923
call me I will discuss these issues with anyone.

2002 CR250R
2001 KDX200
1987 KDX200
1982 Husky WR250

ICE427

4 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2011 : 10:48:12 PM

i hope this thread helps outher riders heading to these locations.i did reaserch on area.went to usda forest service mill creek page for info.ahsca where to ride.and outher sources for info. did notice on bottom of page.LAST MODIFIED.DEC-18-2003.shurly someone has time in 7 year's to update the info.??? im.done!see ya'll

TDuncan

5 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2011 : 08:29:39 AM

Actually I've never heard of anyone on a bike getting a ticket. The only one's I've heard of getting tickets were on ATV's. I guess thats because thats what people usually rip up and down the roads on. I actually passed 2 rangers going up mill creek road one day when we were having to find someone that was lost and they never said a word to me and they had plenty of opportunity. Maybe thats because they were in rescue mode or something.

'02 KTM 400 EXC
'10 KTM 300 XC-W

Jason Stevens

26 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2011 : 09:07:16 AM

I found info at this link. http://www.aokforests.com/
On the right side near the "ride 4 keeps" banner is a link to the new policy..however, it lists the Mill Creek area as a designated mutli use trail system? When you click on that, it advises of the 27mile loop and such. Should I be confused,is this not the area in question?

07'250 XCW

Skythrasher

171 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2011 : 4:33:30 PM

Part of the confusion is that the Mill Creek area and the White Rock area are not the same place. They are neighboring recreation areas in the same forest. Mill Creek is the OHV area, and White Rock is a hiking, biking, non-motorized area with cabins and the like.

The fact that the enduro we put on is called the White Rock Enduro adds to this confusion. Our campground and the trails that we use are adjacent or on the Mill Creek system.

ICE427-

The info that has not been updated is a trail map and rules sheet. You were not on a trail on that map when you got your ticket, were you? If you had read that info or the info on the board at the trail head you would have known what trails were legal. Live and learn, an expensive lesson.

2002 CR250R
2001 KDX200
1987 KDX200
1982 Husky WR250

JoshBrogdon

282 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2011 : 10:55:57 PM

Jake, I would love to come meet with the Razorback riders. I've never been informed of the meeting/place etc. Guess nobody likes me...seriously though, my job prevents me from doing anything past 1500hrs in the evening so i will have to find a way to make it.

Pin it!

Skythrasher

171 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2011 : 07:11:50 AM

Josh,

We have several members that work nights and are not able to make it to most meetings. Our trailmaster, Bobby Paschal, is not able to make some meetings due to his job. Bobby is one of the longest time members that we have, and no one is more dedicate to the club and the sport than he, so we understand. What these members do is find out from another member what happened at the meeting and what they need to do. If you can't make the meetings it's not the end of the world. The really big thing is that you make yourself available to work and ride with the club.

Find a meeting date that you can take vacation or something and come to a meeting and join. Then jsut stay in touch and come to the work and ride days, club campouts, etc..

It's easy, and it's fun!

We would love to have you.

2002 CR250R
2001 KDX200
1987 KDX200
1982 Husky WR250

Edited by - Skythrasher on 01/05/2011 07:14:13 AM

laquadgod

1189 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2011 : 09:28:41 AM

I ride out there when I can, and I don't worry about the KGB. Catch me if you can, I'll take my chances. Do you ever wonder why they close all the riding areas? It's not because people complain about riders and noise, it's all about power, control, and money. If they shut down all of "OUR" land and have us all pushed into one area, it's easier for them to control us. These a-holes need to remember who pays them to hassel us to death. Where are people supposed to go? You can't go anywhere without someone there to "MAKE YOUR DAY" and give you a bunch of crap. Our gov't will not be happy until we all have to quit having fun and just sit in front of the "BOOB" tube and get our marching orders for the day and told what we need to go out and buy. How much do these people think we can take without lashing out? This is "OUR" land as much as anybody else's, and I don't know about you, but I'm tired of wondering where I can and can't ride without asking "BIG BROTHER" if it's OK. It's hard to control us when we are spread all around the forest, but when we are all stuck in a small area, their fat !#& can control us easier. JMO

Question with Boldness, and Speak without Fear!
www.axcracing.com

Skythrasher

171 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2011 : 11:26:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by laquadgod

I ride out there when I can, and I don't worry about the KGB. Catch me if you can, I'll take my chances. Do you ever wonder why they close all the riding areas? It's not because people complain about riders and noise, it's all about power, control, and money. If they shut down all of "OUR" land and have us all pushed into one area, it's easier for them to control us. These a-holes need to remember who pays them to hassel us to death. Where are people supposed to go? You can't go anywhere without someone there to "MAKE YOUR DAY" and give you a bunch of crap. Our gov't will not be happy until we all have to quit having fun and just sit in front of the "BOOB" tube and get our marching orders for the day and told what we need to go out and buy. How much do these people think we can take without lashing out? This is "OUR" land as much as anybody else's, and I don't know about you, but I'm tired of wondering where I can and can't ride without asking "BIG BROTHER" if it's OK. It's hard to control us when we are spread all around the forest, but when we are all stuck in a small area, their fat !#& can control us easier. JMO

Yeah, good luck with that!

2002 CR250R
2001 KDX200
1987 KDX200
1982 Husky WR250

Jake77

1937 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2011 : 7:48:45 PM

It's true though on both counts.

Govt will do it's best to heard us like sheep. If government takes too much control there will be a revolt from people so pent up they can't take any more.

bah. baaah.. bah. baaaaaaahh..

~~Jake Hines~~
AA
'08 KTM300XCW
'05 YZ125
http://www.hookit.com/members/jakeroo7

Edited by - Jake77 on 01/08/2011 7:50:36 PM

dougsoffroadcycle

337 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2011 : 8:44:16 PM

IMO the forest service just dont have the manpower to enforce and maintain the trails we have. So i dont see any new trail opening in the future until we start working with them to maintain what we have.

Skythrasher

171 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2011 : 10:11:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by dougsoffroadcycle

IMO the forest service just dont have the manpower to enforce and maintain the trails we have. So i dont see any new trail opening in the future until we start working with them to maintain what we have.

Your exactly right. Working with them may not get us where we want to be in the end, but fighting them is a sure loss of riding areas.

The personnel that manage the Mill Creek areas seem to be very willing to work with us. You have to remember that the Fed. Gov. is a very large machine and the wheels turn slow.

2002 CR250R
2001 KDX200
1987 KDX200
1982 Husky WR250

cbutler

43 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2011 : 10:29:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Skythrasher

Short Version

Riding any trail that is not marked as open is illegal. Period. No questions asked.

White Rock Mountain has been closed to OHV's for several years and it is clearly posted on the web and any official publications that pertain to the look out area.

All the necessary rules and trail maps that you need to keep from getting tickets are on the USFS website for the Mill Creek trail head.

There are tons of folks riding tons of trails that are not legal. The fact that they do this in mass does not make it legal.

The Razorback Riders work with the Forest Service and turn in an aplication for a permit for all the events that we put on in a year. This has to be turned in months in advance. We have to have insurance for our events and play by their rules.

We are allowed to ride the trails that we have been given the permit for in the task of working the trails for the events.

I am not trying to be the devils advocate, but you have to play by the rules if you want to play. If you see a closed sign it's to late. You've already blew it. The information is out there. It is your responsibility to gather the info you need to stay out of trouble.

Here are two easy ways to learn all you ever wanted to know.

1.First Tuesday of the month come to Jim's Razorback Pizza in Fay. at 7:00 and join the Razorback Riders.

2.Call the Forest service and request the info for legal places to ride OHV's in the forest. (I bet there is even a number on that ticket)They will be glad to send you what you need.

One of the biggest reasons for the sudden increase in enforcement is because the locals are fed up with all the A holes ripping up and down the road at all hours. Come on guys, they live there.

And just so no one thinks I am hiding behind an internet screen name:

Jake Davis
479-595-1923
call me I will discuss these issues with anyone.

Very nicely put Skythrasher It time EVERYONE that rides gets INVOLVED.

Dont forget about the River Valley Dirt Riders or my Arkansas Dirt Riders. We all have web sites and ALL NEED HELP KEEPING AREAS OPEN.

There is no little fairy waving a magic wand making trails to rid on its man power and lots of it.

If you dont want to get involved than QUIT RIDING!!!!!!!!!!!

mgolleher

1650 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2011 : 3:05:39 PM

I was a member of ADR.Some of them are not too friendly them selves. I will not join them again.

FYI, I will not quit riding.

"We're Americans...we don't plan, we do!" General Custard (Night at the Museum Battle of the Smithsonsian)

sponsored by
North Little Rock Honda Yamaha
www.Riderdown.org
mark golleher

laquadgod

1189 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2011 : 5:07:18 PM

Why do we need the FORESTRY SERVICE to maintain trails? Riding the trails maintains them, if there is something in the trail, someone will move it out of the way, or ride around it. That is where they get their panty's in a wad, making a new trail, we may tranmple some stupid plant in the process. Big Brother has way to much power in "OUR" country. The constitution limits "THEIR" power, not OURS? Just because they trample the constitution, doesn't make it right. Sometimes you don't follow the rules, just because someone tells you to.

Question with Boldness, and Speak without Fear!
www.axcracing.com

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