Yield /STOP for Medical and Track workers

[Rob]

I’m writing this in the sprite to help AHSCS improve, I’ll try to keep it short.
When Asa Hancock, stopped me along the Track and said “ Rider injured…Trent…needs assistance .. mile 4.3” I knew what to do from past experience how to get seriously injured rides out of the woods.
After contacting a Track marshal, we proceeded to the injured ride. (Max with a broken leg). After a little planning, Trent Keen move on “He gave up his race to help a down rider” and the Marshal tried to find the best way out and return with EMT’s. Max was comfortable and in good spirits. We had cleared a new line and I position myself and motorcycle to block riders from coming too close.
Important part: When the EMT’s arrived they told me they were just with another rider “Knocked out” and to PLEASE slow the racers down. Stating “ The racers are not slowing down at all and are still passing”
I witnessed the same thing. Even with multiple people and Marshals giving the slow down signal and a 4 wheeler in the trail. Racers were still taking the opportunity to pass (Sometimes making contact), racing the original line (even while being directed not to) and putting the Medical personnel in danger.
At one point during extraction. We had 2 riders on an ATV going down and angled off camber in tight woods. I was asked to stop the riders. 2 had stopped. One came around them. I told him to “STOP, Injured rider” he continued, I (clothed lined) him and he stop. I repeated “ The Track is closed until that 4 wheeler clears that section, Injured rider!” . He said “Do you know who I am” He said that a few times as if he was special. Then he procced to run into me. Now I am top heavy and have only 1 good leg, so as I started to fall I just hung on to him and took him with me. The rider got up before me. The EMT was giving the signal to stop and he rode around and the ATV.
Please make it and an importance to yield to Medical and Track personnel. Even if its just a rider or spectator giving them signals. Only the Marshals had yellow shirts, but as one said to me “They don’t listen to them either”. The EMT stated after the race “this has been a problem at these races”.
Any question? Rob Toole 479.259.8909 I don't get on here much

[RuthGould]

The EMT is Jacob Hyatt’s sister. This tells me that your statements are false. And the reason half those riders didn’t stop is because it was you. Your credibility is shot. You do not need to EVER be in the woods directing anyone. AHSCS has banned you before for ridiculousness such as this. Why in the world would you ever clothesline anyone? You are lucky that it wasn’t some of these other riders that you clotheslined or you might’ve found yourself in more of a pickle than you were.

[RuthGould]

Maybe I was harsh with my words before and for that I do apologize, but you physically put your hands on this rider & at least one other that I know of. It makes me angry & perhaps my angry words are no better than what you did. There are just so many “what ifs” going through my mind right now. What if it was a Schoolboy? What if it was an older man perhaps not the healthiest? What if it was my kid? What if it was Scott Gould? You might’ve bitten off more than you could chew with that one. There has never been a reason in the 10 years that I’ve been doing this for me to ever purposely put a hand on a rider. You made a bad situation worse.

For someone in this situation wondering what the CORRECT thing to do is: Put your body on the same side of the track that the rider is down on, place your hands out in front of you with palms facing down and push them in the direction of the ground over & over & yell “RIDER DOWN.” Most people are genuinely concerned when they know someone is down. Putting your hands on a rider or hitting them with an object or your hands is NEVER ok.

[Jeremy Allmon]

I see no need for a apology. I was the first person at the rider that was knocked out and hollered for help to come redirect racers around him. And several people came and helped with that and got the racers to change the race line because he was in the main line. Now I will be first the first to admit I was definitely frustrated with how soon some racers got back on the gas by this downed rider and slung dirt and mud all over him and the EMT’s. It was very slick at this area and I was just wanting the riders to not go back to race mode so soon. Even though I was frustrated I never once thought about knocking a rider off his bike and believe that kind of behavior is totally unacceptable and should not go unpunished.

So to you Rob I have this to say. If you truly wanted to help the series improve you should have taken those racers #’s to the officers and said they should be talked to about respecting a downed rider and maybe make some suggestions about educating riders more about how to handle these situations. But under no circumstance should any spectator be allowed to put their hands on a racer in a negative manner. I’ve been taught my whole life that my actions have consequences.
Rob your actions are totally unacceptable and should have consequences.

[Rob]

Wow I see how the Boeing whistle blowers feel,
I gave you a detailed account of how AHSCS can/needs to improve and I get attacked.

If you saw that poor kid moaning in pain on the back of a ATV. The driver hanging off one side to keep it from flipping and then to have racers trying to force their way past. You would understand why I made the post.

Jeremy, No Officers were at the Pits when I was leaving so the EMT’s and I talked. He said he was going to address the problem with them. I suggest you and the officers talk to your track personnel and EMT's to confirm the story. He stated he has authority to stop the race but know one listens to them.

I tried to address my post to not bring up old problems. It was to suggest that all riders should be instructed on what to do when track personnel are giving the slow down signal. Slow, 1st gear, no passing, and you brought up a good point no roosting.

I could not keep track of all the riders disregarding the situation, most of them were courteous. I bet the EMTs and the other Track Marshals could testify riders #1 and #2 gave NO regard for their safety. Even though we tried to redirect them to the new line and to slow down, they passed within inches at full race speed on the original race line. This will get me in trouble but #2 passed 3 riders that had slowed. knocking one rider into a tree right beside the ATV with the injured rider on it. This was on his second time going past the crash seen.

To be clear at no time did I hit any rider(s), Knock a rider off the track or bike nor did I have anything in my hands. A “Cloth Line” is putting your arm out in front of the rider, he stopped then. After I told him again why he was stopped. He took off knocking this Fat. Old. Cripple with heath issues over. I just hung on to him as I fell. I hit the ground first. So that rider should have consequences for running over me.

Ruth. Thanks for confirming all the lies and stories you have told about me. The past situation was nothing like this and like now, my side of the story meant nothing. Again, You are adding details that never happened. You just wanted to take out another promoter to make the AHSCS Monarchy more powerful. Your Monarchy can have your little state series that caters to the few. Me and my family will continue to speak out to protect the racers and to grow the sport nationwide. Funny, just thought you would like to know we helped your son get some of his sponsors. Bless your hart.

[Joshpoteete]

I was at the tail end of the "clothesline" incident and that's not what happened.
Helping an injured rider is admirable and appreciated. I've stopped my race to help an injured rider and have been upset at people going by too fast. However, I stayed with the rider while others went up the trail in a visible spot, yelled downed rider and pointed riders to an alternate line.
I was two riders back from the "clotheslined" rider.
We came around a corner at race pace turned left at the top of the hill then all the sudden a spectators arm pops up and yells stop. We were at the top of the hill, we couldn't see the injured rider. I personally thought what the hell is going on, I almost hit the rider in front of me stopping , I then went to the right around him on a line that was so far away from the injured rider that I never even saw him or knew that he was there until someone told me after the race.
I saw out of the corner of my eye two people roll on the ground, i thought two riders crashed, I didn't know it was a spectator. And you did hit another rider, a 17 year old kid, it's a good thing it wasn't my kid.
As racers we should all appreciate any help from spectators, especially for injured riders. You can't just randomly throw an arm in the trail and yell stop to racers in the middle of a race though and expect them to stop, especially in a spot where they can't even see the downed rider

[Rob]

Josh, thanks for your point of view and input. Stating, “Thats that's not what happened” and then “I saw out of the corner of my eye two people roll on the ground, i thought two riders crashed” Is Not seeing what happened. How dare you make an accusation that I hit some 17 year old rider with no details. I was getting if front of the faster riders to slow them down but never hit anyone. The rider that stopped and then ran over me, I hung on to as I was falling over.

The injured riders convoy had just moved down a bad spot on a blind hill with no way around. I was asked to stop traffic. So I did the best I could. Parked my Sherco 500 sideway in the trail got off my bike so people can see my 300+ lbs 6’ 6 “ body standing there waving my arms to stop. There is no “Poping out” from this old goat. You may have caught me when I was explaining to the rider that took me out to stop for that ATV to clear. But you should have heard me bellowing STOP! Rider Down! You and the other riders trying to force your way around instead of thinking “Hey there may be a rider down or an emergency vehicle in the track, Maybe I should figure out what is going on and slow down. You didn’t see the ATV when you rode by them? Because there was no other way around we looked.

THAT is what the problem is. It should be taught and enforced to yield or stop when told.
Now I understand I didn’t have a Yellow shirt on. I was doing all I could to protect the injured rider and EMTs and was willing to put myself in front of the riders to protect them. Lets play What if, I gave the slow down signal, the rider raced by couldn’t stop on the steep off-chamber and slid into the tittering ATV, how bad would that be for them, the Land owners and AHSCS officers. That was very close to happening repeatedly.

Get you priorities straight, Fix this problem, The old rule book I wrote had a paragraph that cover this. It should still be in there.

[Joshpoteete]

Maybe not "hit" as in punch, maybe I should have clarified, but call it a slap on the arm hard as he was going by, whatever, either way, still shouldn't have happened.
And to be very clear to you, I didn't say I saw the clothesline or whatever u want to call it, but I did see what happened initially at the top of the hill right before and it wasn't what you originally said. I heard u yell "stop" , right as we were making that corner, and throw your arm out. I had to lock both brakes up not to hit the rider in front of me it was so sudden.
After that, I didn't push my way through, I didn't have to, there was a totally open line to the right that I took, and no there was no 4 wheeler there.
I can't speak on any other riders/situation of riders going by too close/fast but I do know what happened with the two riders immediately in front of me and it definitely was not how you tried to portray it in your initial post.

[JacobHyatt]

Rob, it is always appreciated and commendable to assist injured riders and I appreciate the help in that matter.

The series has already began the process to acquire EMS vests to be worn by safety personnel at future events. We will make a point to educate riders on appropriate techniques to pass downed riders.

As far as touching any racer on the course has no place in racing and has to have a zero tolerance order. Rob, you have admitted to placing your hands on the rider you ‘stopped’ and that should never have happened.

The mother of the minor that you tried to ‘slow down or stop’, reported that his exact words to her were, “He slapped the fire out of my arm!” I do not feel that you can say that you didn’t hit or touch anyone else. These are the only individuals that we are aware of and I hope there were no other incidents.

Based on your previous comments in this thread, I’m not sure of your intentions going forward with our ‘little state series’, but I feel like some ground rules and conversations need to be placed or had to insure that these kind of incidents do not happen again if you plan to attend future events.

[wfopete]

Kind of a interesting paradox we have here. On one hand you have folks who want to protect the injured rider/s (well, we all do I hope). On the other hand in doing so there is a "no contact" with another rider no matter what the circumstances. I don't know much about Mr. Toole other than he is another dirt bike nut. I hear a lot of "If that was my kid he touched" talk. . But would you feel the same way about Mr. Toole if it was your kid or you on the ground injured and were potentially in the path of other riders? Did anyone know the full extent of the rider/s injuries at the time of the intendent? Prolly not. I don't even believe anyone has stated or knows all the facts surrounding the incident.

Did Mr. Toole make the right call? Apparently not. But there is an old saying in the military/1st responders circles that I think applies here and that is: Don't second guess the decision of the commander on the ground. He is there and you were not. It 's EZ to sit in judgement when you have the luxury of not being there. I don't think Mr. Toole wants to see anyone hurt and he probably was doing what he thought was needed at the time. Maybe you or I would have acted in a similar manner. Heck paid and trained course workers at professional races get all sorts of stuff wrong all the time. Like what Mr. Hyatt related to is what needs to happen is get the facts straight, learn from them and make the series better for the future. If you go around burning your volunteers at the cross every time they get it wrong then you won't have to worry about having volunteers because there won't be any. I gotta go; I just picked a gallon of blueberries and I'm Jonesing for some blueberry pie.

[Rob]

My intentions are stated in the first sentence of my post “I’m writing this in the sprite to help AHSCS improve”.
After being called names, false accusation flung around, whisper behind my back, I will continue to stand for the riders, speaking out about problems.
As I stated before:
I tried to address my post to not bring up old problems. It was to suggest that all riders should be instructed on what to do when track personnel are giving the slow down signal. Slow, 1st gear, no passing, no roosting.

I did not seek out a problem I was just making sure Trent was not the hurt rider and I was ask to help. I had a Pro rider to pit for I didn’t want to be out there either.

The main reason I posted this is because your Track Marshals and EMT stated “They don’t listen to them”” and “this has been a problem at these races”. They were talking about AHSCS officers and racers.

I don’t mind standing up for the Riders or the sport and taking hits in any form. It’s too bad that some can’t take anyone speaking out. I have been a track marshal at World event “TKO” I’ve seen world riders get off their bikes to get a lesser rider out from under a bike and what did the competitor do when he came up from behind? He stopped and let the leader get back on his bike and pull away. I saw more concern for racers a few weeks ago at the NEPG from top championship riders. AHSCS is the worst I have ever seen in any series. NO consideration for anybody spectator, Marshal, EMT. It is a cultures thing with in AHSCS because the rule for it was taken out of the rules and there is no consequence for the riders.

If I could help with a meeting with the officers, track marshals, EMTs on a plans to improve the current situation, with developing a rule (because there is nothing in the book now), Educating the Marshals and EMT with an excavation plans and trail map set up in advance, getting communication to all people and have a chain of command. Like I do at my events, I would be glad to so but I would not be welcome. I do hope you will have a meeting.

Jeremy and I talked. He suggested that I clarify the “ Clothesline”. I’m not a Football player so it was not a tackle. I stood in the way and he came to me but I did not yield. Like running into a branch or a line across the trail. He also suggested that the EMTs have Red & White flags they can set-up down the trail that would be for riders to do a stop and go.

I do apologize to any rider that felt I was being too aggressive trying to protect a down rider. At the beginning, we were just trying to slow the riders down and get them to move to the alternate lane. Many riders just grazed past us as some riders slowed and other saw a passing opportunity. Passing on the left and right of us. We were not Track workers any more just obstacles to ping-pong off of as we tried to move out of the way. I was hit / grazed many times and in my opinion, this is probably when the young rider had his arm hit. Maybe if he was going slow hitting me would not have hurt so much.

I do understand riders get blinded from the intensity of racing with adrenaline running high. Obviously, Josh was blinded not seeing me the stopped bikes the Marshals the EMTs or 4 wheeler. The downhill section did not last long 1 -2 minutes for the ATV to transverse and only a few riders 5-7passed. But when I got up, all the riders had left. The EMT was directing them to the side and the 4 wheeler was almost to the bottom. But a least they slowed to a stop before heading down the hill.
I did not hit anyone.

[Joshpoteete]

Your post wasn't directed at me in the beginning, it was at the riders in front of me.
I only posted because I know what I saw happen directly in front of me.
And we were all caught off guard.
Helping an injured rider is priority but "In the spirit of making the series better" , there's a better way to do that.
I wasn't blinded and riding on adrenaline stopped for me about 20 years ago

[Jason Harmon]

When I came up on Rob in the woods, there was no downed rider in sight. It was just Rob standing there angrily yelling “Stop”. I stopped momentarily and then saw a course worker further down the trail that I trusted and made the split second decision to ride down to check with them regarding what was going on rather than trust Rob’s instructions. Rob has a checkered past with this series that includes having already been banned from attending races in the past and quite frankly I didn’t trust his judgment that I needed to remain stopped.

When I made the decision that I was going to ride further down the trail to the actual course worker that I trusted, there was no injured rider in our vicinity and no one was in any danger of being hit whatsoever.

When I began to take off, Rob stepped in front of me with his arm out in an attempt to block me and then put his arms around me and pulled me off the bike and onto the ground.

Rob, you can try to spin it however you want on here, but we both know your exact intentions. Trying to steady yourself if off balance wouldn’t include putting your arms around me and pulling me down.

I’m sure that you probably felt that I was disrespecting you by not obeying your command and had a knee-jerk reaction to try to physically stop me. While unacceptable, I can at least understand that immediate reaction. What I have a hard time understanding is that after having time to cool off, rather than simply admit that you messed up, you try to twist the story around as though you did nothing wrong.

When I finished the race, before I’d had a chance to tell a single person what had happened, word had already spread through the pits that you had tackled me to the ground. This information had come from that aforementioned course worker that watched this entire incident play out.

I understand your reasoning behind this post was an attempt to get out in front of this and put a spin on it as if your actions were somehow justified in the name of safety, but again, no one was in any danger whatsoever when you decided to pull me to the ground.