Pee Wee & Kids Classes

[Boodles58]

Bringing up the subject of adjusting these classes to be more in line with AMA guidelines and other off road series in our area. These classes have grown along with overall entries, our youth is the future of our sport. I was told it was going to be discussed with parents but haven't heard anything more.

[JacobHyatt]

To jumpstart the conversation, which changes were you eluding too as far as lining up with AMA guidelines? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Boodles58]

Thank you for responding, conversation started.

[Dirty30]

For example: The below rules are off of the ama website.
Kids are allowed to race 50cc bikes until they are 8 . In my opinion this greatly helps build a childs confidence on the bike.
By the time kids are required to race against 65s in AHSCS they can barely touch the ground on a ktm pro senior much less ride it at a level to gain confidence and speed.

50cc (4-8) 4-8 yrs 0-51cc Stock Multi/Auto (class 3&4 AMA) check list on ama website. P-3 cobras, ttrs, crf's, pw's.Ktm Mini adventures.
Junior and Senior bikes not allowed.

Click link to view AMA rule book. https://americanmotorcyclist.com/wp-con ... lebook.pdf

50 Jr 4-6 yrs 0-51cc Stock Auto
50 Sr 7-8 yrs 0-51cc Stock Auto
50cc Electric 4-8yrs Electric Check AMA page for restrictions.
65cc Jr 7-9 yrs 59cc-65cc
65cc Sr 10-11 yrs 59cc-65cc
85 Jr 9-11 yrs 79-85cc
85 Sr 12-15 yrs 79-85cc

[Porterfield_Loren]

I think a Jr and Sr Peewee would be a great idea. For some of the smaller kids (for their age) its next to impossible to expect them to go straight from Peewee into Kids B and jump on a 65 or even a 110 and think they can handle anything hilly or off camber. I realize they arent forced off of a 50 but lets face it they wont be even hardly competitive on a PW vs any 65 or 110. It destroys any confidence they have gained on a PW50 or other smaller bike. The bikes are taller and heavier and for kids that arent even 50 pounds at age 7-8 that's a big disadvantage. These kiddos are the future of the sport and if we dont cater to them in the least bit they and their parents will get tired of the long faces for being unable to get around the longer kids track and will eventually stop coming. But on the other hand if they dont stop coming due to older siblings or daddies who race but still arent comfortable enough to race in their class they are sitting on the sidelines and losing the ability to gain the same experience as their peers and will continue to fall further behind.
Officers,
I know its impossible to please everyone.... But if we are willing to add back the 60+ class that hasnt had more than about 3 riders in it all year why cant we have this for the kids? I have been in and around this series since 2007 and this has been the biggest turn out of kids the past few years that I have EVER seen. The entries will pay the extra for the trophies if that's what's holding you all back. And if thats the sticking point for the officers and promoters then I assure you there are plenty of people like me, who dont even have a kid that this would affect, who would be more than willing to spot the series/promoter the cost of three more trophies for the first season to see how it goes. If given the opportunity I believe this will not only give these smaller kids a place to shine but it will bring more families in to be a part of our amazing race family and foster growth for our series for YEARS to come.

Sincerely,
A Mom who likes to see all kids succeed

[Porterfield_Loren]

Our kids race Midsouth Arenacross in the offseason and this is the breakdown for the 50cc & 65cc classes there:

50 BEGINNER (NO SENIOR BIKES) (TRAINING WHEELS ARE ALLOWED)
50CC (4-8) AIR COOLED / SHAFT
50 JR. (4-6) (NO SR BIKES)
50 SR. (7-8)
50 OPEN ( NO 50CC BEG CAN RIDE THIS)
65 (7-9)
65 (10-11)
65 OPEN
65 BEGINNER (7-14) – CANNOT JUMP FINISH LINE

If you want to see the full break down of classes click here: https://midsoutharenacross.com/classes/

[Ajudy300]

I think a peewee JR/ SR is a great idea myself.

[Boodles58]

Yes I agree, hope this is addressed in the upcoming meeting. Does anyone know when this may be?

[Boodles58]

Attention !!! Officers/Promoters/Members who may have not seen these posts. Help our sport, series & racing families grow.

[Jason Harmon]

I do believe that there will be a Year-End Meeting held this weekend but the specific time, etc., has not yet been determined. I'll post back as soon as I hear the final details!

[RuthGould]

I thought the message board had died! Glad to see some chatter! No need to respond to my message, Becky. I see now.

[HaleyHughes]

As a mom who has a son that races both hare scrambles and motocross, I can see the advantages and disadvantages of both. We don’t have the time on race days to break down and add more races. If you are wanting to run a junior and senior class together like they do in Kids A and B, then I definitely think that is not a good idea. You will have your fast 50 kids trying their hardest to race and at the same time not run over and hit the smaller kids. A lot of the peewee tracks this year would be overrun with riders if they ran the same course at the same time. If they aren’t running the same course as the other peewee, then what are they running? Kids B course but in their own peewee sr class? If they are going to run the kids b then why not move them up to kids B class? I also don’t think it’s fair to compare a hare scramble to motocross. Although they are both dirt bike racing and have a lot of similarities, they are very different. I’ve seen a young hare scramble kid look like they’ve never even ridden a dirt bike before when they set foot on a motocross track (I know we’re just referring to classification, but even the moto format for motocross is different than hare scrambles) If your kid is more comfortable on a 50 but is moving up to the kids classes based off of age, then keep them on the 50. My son had third place in kids B on a 50 until the last 1/2 mile or so and that’s against 65s and 110s. There was only one Kids B track that he didn’t even try to race in because it was too difficult. Even at that, he was trying it on a 50 with little bitty tires and there were huge rocks everywhere (making sure that each kids B track is navigable with small tires would be my only input correction). The kids that are moving up from peewee to kids B this next year are already working on their 65 skills. Personal opinion, but if a kid wants to race, they’ve got to practice and get comfortable on their bike. If that’s on a 50 until they are ready to try a 65, then it’s on a 50. If you don’t have the kids aging out of peewee move up to something harder now to where they are getting beat by some of those older kids and riding on a harder, longer course, then how are they ever going to learn a lot of the valuable lessons you learn from racing (losing, perseverance, effort, dedication, etc). Those kids would never have any competition except for the same people they always race against. I know, I know. It’s not all about winning, but this is racing. If you’re not in it to win, then you’ve just got a super expensive, dangerous hobby. Kids that really want to ride and race dirt bikes, do it because they absolutely love it. Are they in it to win, of course! Do they not want to come back because they lose or get defeated? Never. These kids truly have a passion for the sport. They eat sleep and breathe dirt bikes.

[ShelbyJohnson]

If you would like to compare other off-road AKA cross-country dirt bike racing Series in the region and how they structure classes that are comparable to the AHSCS here’s a resource list and some high level notes. Some are similar to AHSCS, and some are not.

Hillbilly GP 6& under SOURCE: https://harescramble.net/wp-content/upl ... waiver.pdf

MORE 10& under A, B, C SOURCE: https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/2a85ec ... ERS_V4.pdf

OCCRA 9& under 50cc Advanced, Intermediate, Beginner SOURCE: https://www.occra.com/classes/

BJEC - 6& under equivalent to AHSCS PeeWee SOURCE: http://blackjackenduro.org/files/docume ... ab4402.pdf

TORN - 10& under Expert, Intermediate, Amateur SOURCE: http://www.tornracing.com/MCUTV%20rules.pdf

MSXC - 8& under class depending, Sr, Jr, Beginner SOURCE: https://msxc.com/bike-classes/

[Porterfield_Loren]

Thank you Shelby for taking the time to track all of these down from multiple comparable series!

No we arent MotoCross or Arenacross thats a fair statement. Although, all but one of these woods based series have more PeeWee racing options than AHSCS. This is not an unrealistic ask to add one more classification. Between Kids and Peewee we run 3 classes... Some of these series run 6 classes for those same groups. I know its a numbers thing sometimes but we have had lots of peewees and kids turn up for races this year and for anyone who was present at the Buffalo Wilderness race and saw the turn out for the Stacyc and Strider race you know how many little guys and gals there are that are about to turn the corner and be the right age to benefit from this change.
Thank you to all the officers for putting all this into consideration.

[HaleyHughes]

Thanks Shelby!

Just thinking of more questions:

After looking over the classifications from what Shelby sent, only one other organization, if I looked at them correctly, has a 6 and under for 50s like we do. Everyone else does have more than one 50 class option which I already knew because moto does too, but it’s the age and bike size of those 50 classes that are vast and varying from each one to the next. One of them even has 10 and under for a 50 class 😳 That being said, do the kids already riding kids B on 65s/110s get to back down to a peewee class? Don’t know why they would want to take a step backwards, but just a question I was thinking about

[Ajudy300]

I think peewees should be 50cc. I like the A/B idea. Just not sure about adjusting the age requirements.

[wfopete]

Maybe have a Pee Wee & Kids "Pit/Parking" class since that where most of the little ankle biters race around at.

Sorry somebody had to say it; well maybe not but I did.

[Jason Harmon]

I think there are a few valid reasons for at least trying Peewee A/B.

It does seem like virtually every other series offers kids older than 6 the opportunity to race a dedicated 50cc class.

With the relatively large number of Stacyc/Strider racers at Wilderness ranch, hopefully that means that we have a wave of new Peewee class riders headed to the series soon! Splitting the classes would allow for the younger kids to ride the slower trail bikes like the PW50 and CRF50 and not be forced to compete against the faster crop of 50cc race bikes like the KTM 50 SX.

Increased lapped traffic is a valid concern, however all of these other series seem to be able to make it work so it might be rectified by simply trying to add a little length to each track to help spread the riders out more. In reviewing the results of this season, there seems to already be a pretty wide disparity in lap times between the Peewee class leaders and those further down the list.

Adding a Kids C class for 7 & 8 year-olds is an interesting option as well, but from what I understand, a little bit of the issue is that some of the younger kids are having a tough time navigating the more difficult terrain on the Kids courses.

[HaleyHughes]

I never thought about kids c and that sounds like a pretty decent option. You could make the course more navigable for those riders by possibly making a different route around the parts that are hard for a little tires to get through

[Kyleeburns]

As the mom of a three year old that raced the whole season (most of it while he was 2) I do not like the thought of my son having to race with 8 year olds and possibly some 9 year olds. 2-8 is a huge age gap to me. I have been around the series most of my life, even raced a couple races myself. Racing wasn’t for me. I was good at other things. The kids class is 7-10 with an A and B Row. That’s only 3 years age difference. Then another 3 years for the short class. I don’t think the age gaps are an issue. Life is hard, sports are hard. We need to push our kids to practice and work hard to get where they want to be. If a kid is not willing to work for something we are not doing them any favors handing it to them. You won’t always win. Hank road all year and never even got an award. But he finished every race he started on a bike that weighs over 80lbs while he only weighs 30lbs. He’s crashed, he’s been bruised, he’s cried, but he always gets back on. And one day when he gets that podium finish or win, it will be a huge accomplishment for him.