Proposal on Pee Wee Race Start Time in 2015 Season

[jayriverroad]

I would like to start by saying thank you to the officers for giving us the opportunity to make suggestions and the time to consider them, I really encourage everyone to attend this year end meeting and take part. This series belongs to everyone, the riders, their family, officers and promoters. Any and all subjects effect us all, so bring your thoughts and input. I have a few suggestions to look at and reasons for the suggestions, I will try to keep it short.

1. As mentioned above, research for another tool to be used along with the AP for class advancements. There are too many variables during a race to rely on AP alone. I have several examples of why I feel the AP isn't the best tool to use alone in this case, Too many to list here, will make a list for the meeting if you would like
2. Let scoring take over the start
This will ensure it is done right, done on time, eliminates a two party system and gives scoring full
control. It takes the question of when do we start and how we start out of the picture
Frees the promoter up to have more time for track changes, ribbon repair,
Allows more time for row check
3. Start the races on time, if you are not there, you missed the start, with exception to issues that may be out of our control. But waiting on late riders because they running behind, or bike want start isn't fair to the other that are ready, that's racing
4. THE BIGGIE ,,, change of start times,
I went back a looked at each race for this year, We had as little a 1 and up to 5 peewee riders per
race this year, with most being 2 or 3 per race, giving an average of 2 peewee riders per race. I love these
little guys and want to see the class grow. I suggest combine the peewees in with the kids moto,
Start them at the back and run them their 20 minutes and kids continue to run their 30 minutes.
( like schoolboy on long moto). We did this at a race on our place and it worked great. These little
riders can get through more than you think, plus will really prep them for when they move up. It
may take the promoter putting a little more effort into the kid track to ensure they can ride it,
but it is no more work than building a separate peewee track. If this is done the start times can
be moved allowing the race and awards be over at an earlier time, and allow more room for
unexpected delays causing late starts

Peewees and Kids = practice lap 8:15
start 8:30
peewees off 8:50
Kids off 9:00
Short moto = practice lap 9:30
start 9:45
short off 10:30
Long moto = start 11:30
long off 1:30
Awards at 2;45
If scoring took over the start, the promoter is free to lead practice lap and help line up the peewee and kids and keep things on time. This suggestion will allow everyone to get back home earlier. Most racers have several hours to drive after the race,
Another option would be run the peewees after the long moto during the scoring and protest period. By doing this you can still move the start time back allowing for an earlier finish

[RuthGould]

Jay,
Starting Pee Wees after the long has been discussed in the past. I kinda like your idea of combining the kids and pee wees.... hmmmm... I'd like to ponder on it more. I'd like to hear from Pee Wee parents and see what their thoughts are on the subject.

Maybe we should make a new thread about this... I know it's possible for these selections to be split off into a new thread but I'm not read sure how to do it. And a little nervous about screwing up the whole thread. I'll see if Shelby can do that. LOL!

[jayriverroad]

We ran into the same deal at the race we had a few weeks ago. I had a separate track for peewees but only had 2 show up, So we put them in with the kids moto yet still scored them as peewee. They did great, Had 1 sweep rider in mid pack, and 2 following the little guys. I has one spot that I was worried about them having trouble at so I stood at it. They blew through like nothing to it. My place is a little more forgiving than some that did help but it did work well. You can even score them through the tent, which will get them better prepped for moving up, Use to being around more riders, and a little more challenging course. We had one peewee pass a kid class rider hahahaha

[Patrick]

#1 criteria would have to be fair and equally applied
#2 agree completely.
#3 yep you snooze you lose

#4 I had a peewee last year so I'll throw in my 2 cents in. I don't believe putting peewees in with the kids is a safe idea . Kids A can be very fast and a challenging course for them is too much for many peewees. The peewee track should be small enough to keep the kids in sight pretty much at all times. Your peewee track in '13 Jay was a great example. Some of these little riders just aren't ready to mix it up with the bigger kids. I realize there is little participation in peewee but if it is combined with kids or moved after long course there will be less.

Whatever time frame is set racing parents with racing kids need to have time to get everyone where they need to be. It needs to be realistic and doable 99% of the time or else folks get frustrated.

[ShelbyJohnson]

I may have a PeeWee racer in 2015 and would be open to trying a mixed group with the kids class but I see two challenges:

1) The course must be VERY easy. The easier course will give them more confidence and I would hope they would be less likely to take a tumble.

2) I think for my racer I would have a hard time explaining why he only races 20 minutes when the others are going longer. That would be my problem not a promoters problem though.

We had our first PeeWee race experience at Boston Mtn and the part of the course in the off-camber before scoring was a little too tough for my racer. He had not gained enough skill to handle that section and got frustrated. I think it was a good experience for him to ride through the scoring gate just like the big racers.

[Blyoth]

) The course must be VERY easy. The easier course will give them more confidence and I would hope they would be less likely to take a tumble.

Then the bigger kids would have to be riding an easy course. I think the bigger kids deserve to be on a course that challenges them. Put the bigger kids on an "easy" course and they will be blitzing by those peewees so fast that it might not be safe.

[JacobHyatt]

I agree with Patrick on PeeWee sitation. But I'll throw in my position on it for fun.

1) PeeWees need easier course than the kids do. PeeWees generally require constant attention to get around courses especially the more difficult ones. So in addition to a PeeWee being on the track with faster kids, there will likely be an adult trailing the PeeWee kid.
- having a child in the Kids class and the PeeWee class, I would be forced to 'babysit' the PeeWee and not get to watch the older child even race. Kind of a bummer for a parent that does this mainly for the kids.

2) Darrell Judy (minus the rainy conditions) was a perfect example of the differences in a Kids class rider and a PeeWee rider. I think both tracks were PERFECT for skill levels for both classes. Kids and PeeWee were challenged appropriately, however, having a PeeWee rider, I know he would have given up first lap on the longer more difficult Kids course.

3) As Shelby mentioned, PeeWees need a confidence boost and are easily discouraged when things don't go there way (much like adults, but fewer tears). They need to enjoy riding if we want them to continue in the sport we all love so much.

4) Lastly, the PeeWee race takes 20-30 minutes max and it is usually done before the majority of the riders gets there. I don't feel like it really impacts the overall schedule of the day enough to consider combining and potentially losing our little guys and gals. Moving the race after long course could be really difficult for a parent racing long course to be there (total exhaustion, wreck, extra lap, or even injury). I would rather just move long course up 30-60 minutes if possible.

[RuthGould]

While reading your posts I was reminded of Boogieville again... 3 years ago. TJ was in PeeWee. There was a small down hill section that he was absolutely freaked out about! Some of y'all may remember because it's where we did the trick or treat/haunted trail. TJ was scared to death to go down that hill. He cried & fussed!! We tried & tried to talk him into just trying it one time. Grandpa, daddy, Kristen, even Jeremy! Mike Lorenz even talked about routing around it. And to be honest, he may have now that I think about it but I may be mixing that up with another time he routed something for us mamas. Lol! I just remember how much that little hill had him petrified! Now TJ is 9 & races in the kids A class. I really can't imagine putting him, Lane, & Jeremy on the same track with that little 6 year old from 3 years ago. He loves racing more than any of the other boys & loves the challenges that the different tracks have. When he comes home after a race he talks about this part of the track & that part of the track that he loved! It cracks me up at his grown up speech when it comes to talking about riding. So I said all that to say, I don't think mixing those guys up is a good idea. I do wish we could draw more of the little fellers in & I would be happy to set them up their own little scoring area if needed. I'll work on an idea for that. Something simple to get them used to going through the scoring area.

As for the schedule... I will talk to Karen & see what she thinks can be done. She may have some ideas. I know we all wouldn't mind getting home a bit earlier! Lol!

TJ @ Boogieville 2011... So precious!

[jayriverroad]

Run the peewees after the long course, during protest and scoring.

[ZacCrowl]

I've never had a peewee, so I can't really relate to the issue.
However, I think you may have some folks that have a peewee racer, and that's it. Perhaps grandparents that no longer race or maybe a couple who has a peewee but neither parent races. They would likely prefer to keep coming early in the morning and being done so they don't waste their whole day.
Additionally, if there is only a peewee racer in the family, I highly doubt they travel more than an hour to a race. Just something to consider when you talk about peewee numbers.

Lastly, course must be easy, like ridiculously easy. Those little guys and gals are testing their skills enough by simply riding these bikes, they need no obstacles. Them having fun should be the number one priority. They could race around a parked trailer and have a blast.

[wfopete]

Zac brings up a good point.

What level of riding competence should a Pee Wee rider have to enter a AHSCS class?

Think about other Pee-Wee level sport activities. What is the expectation for the skill level required to participate? Put the name Pee-Wee in front of any sport (tennis, baseball, football, hockey or what ever else you can think of) and what is the expected skill level of the little ankle biters?

Now consider this: The Pee-Wee is in charge of a motorized vehicle capable of ? with a gaggle of other PW's trying to compete. This fact takes the kid out of the average PW picture and up's the ante a bit.

If as Zac says that PWs "are testing their skills enough by simply riding these bikes"; then, I believe, they should not be out there. I think when a PW rider comes to the line they need to have a skill level to do more than just navigate a course without obstacles.

Finally, a disclaimer: I don't own a Pee-Wee, never even rented one. They are way above my threshold for pain and tolerance.

[jayriverroad]

I have to say, I was the one that suggested this change, and I too do not own a peewee, I have 15 year old B open rider that at time has peewee thinking moments hahaha, I really do love seeing these little guys ride, and yes, make a circle track in field and they will ride it all day. But if I am reading it right I agree that the peewees should have a good idea of how to ride before they race. I don't think a race is the place to learn to ride. I agree a peewee track ( no matter who else rides it) needs to easy enough for them to make it around. I am also all about the safety ( its my job) but I have never seen a race that there wasn't several adult riders trailing the kids and peewees. As I said before we did it and it worked great, If there was an issue ( there wasn't) there was 2 adults behind them to help them along. and to also protect them from the other riders. Something I witnessed this summer, we took Noah to a 2 day MX class given by Ozzy Barbaree. A couple showed up with a 5 year old. The only seat time he had period of 6 or 7 trips down the driveway on a bike, and the one he showed up with was brand new never ridden. That little dude was turned loose ( but supervised) on a MX track with riders as fast and faster than Noah ( B open points leader). By mid day day 1 he was rolling. Day 2 was like he had been doing it for a year. The next weekend he road his first race and won. Point is they are braver and better than we think. Riding with and around the big bikes and fast riders never made him flinch and in 2 days he was race ready. Having a peewee trained to handle the bike first, then go race and putting them with the older riders will challenge them. They will pick up on the racing part of riding much faster. But again, I do not have a peewee and cant honestly say how I would react if I did to this suggestion. I was a bucket of nerves with that 5 year old out on that MX track, but it proved me wrong, Things went great.

[Travisdupriest]

Post by Rob:

Pee Wee Race times: The track is better too easy than to scare them off must be real easy to follow

[mommahyatt]

Being a proud mom of a 4 year old PeeWee and a 7 year old Kids-A and both being very dedicated to their races, would like to put in my thoughts.
I am not big on the idea of putting our PeeWees with kids A and B. If this was done the course would for sure have to be made easier. I would hate to have to do that for the older ones. Also I like being able to see me PeeWee racer almost the whole time of the race or at least him coming around quicker than the 10 or more minutes of the old ones. I am a very laid back mom but this would make me nervous for our little ones. My oldest son, Lane, had his worst wreck on a mx track with older, faster guys this past summer. He went down after a jump and was landed on by a bigger rider. It messed up his back for several weeks after and it broke his helmet. I know they don't do big jumps in our races but still, kids A and B are a lot faster than PeeWee. Also I am for keeping the PeeWee race in the morning for the fact of my husband races the long course so after he has raced 2+hours he barely has enough energy to load up everything we have right before awards. This is the time we use to pack up everything. if we had to do the PeeWee race during this time then we wouldn't be able to pack up till after awards. This would be putting us home later with 3 tired kiddos. That is it
We have really enjoyed being part of this series, grateful for everything ya'll do! See everyone next year!

[RuthGould]

I propose that we cut the Pee Wees down to 15 minutes. Keep them in their own - not combined with kids, close sign up at 11:30 sharp & start the big bikes at 12:00. I think with the scoring team doing the flag, it would allow the promoter more time to be able to better stay on schedule. Btw, Scott had to go hunt down the kids at Crossroads. No one was down there. Lol! I don't think moving things up would really help, but he could've went soon to hunt down those kids & been able to start their race in time. The kids were late, went into short time. Short was late bc kids, then he had course alterations to make between short & long. If kids had been on time, he would've had time to change the track, radio to me that he was ready to start & could've very well started at 12:00. I think with some combined changes we can make the schedule work the way it is currently run. I'll also add that most if those pee wees are worn out with 20 minutes. I'm not sure, but I don't think parents would mind cutting peewee down to 15 minutes instead of 20.

Also, I re-read what I wrote about Boogieville & TJ liking to race better than the other boys. I was referring to MY other boys when I said that. Thought I better make that clear. Lol!

[jayriverroad]

I am game for anything on this, I was only making a suggestion, I promise I didn't mean it in a way to take away from the little guys. I was just looking for a way to speed up the day. I really look forward to seeing everyone and enjoy our time together, but it makes for a long drive home and a short night sleep. hahaha. I would be for the 15 min race. At most races these little guys get to ride most of the day after their race too, so seat time isn't a problem, I also agree on having them on the line in time, This has been a issue at many races, once you start behind you never catch up